Planning starwind deployment - couple of questions

[tux-]

We are currently planning a Starwind iSCSI SAN deployment, did some research but did not find conclusive answer on the following points:

[*] Because we are partly migrating the existing environment, we would like to start out with the free version and later (when equipment is available) make the setup high available (which includes buying the license). Is it possible to create a target, and later make the target HA keeping the data on the target (some downtime is of course expected).

[*] Hardware VSS: Starwind provides hardware VSS support, but I haven't been able to find a download for this. Is this included in the free version as well? Does the hardware VSS provider supports transportable auto-recovery snapshots? Thus, making it compatible with MS DPM and Veeam? I have seen a lot of hardware VSS provider not supporting the latter (including Microsoft's own implementation) making them useless for Hyper-V backup.

[*] Starwind Hyper-V backup seems to an interesting product. Is there any support for off-site backups? (let's say, over 100 Mbit/sec, 10-12 milliseconds latency).

Thanks,

[anton (staff)]

1) Yes, you can do it. With no downtime in most of the cases.

2) There's a hardware VSS shipped with StarWind but there are issues with both DPM and VEEAM compatibility. I'll ask responsible people to report latest status here.

3) Yes, it can do VM-level async replication (upcoming version of StarWind will do the same for LUN-level as well).

We are currently planning a Starwind iSCSI SAN deployment, did some research but did not find conclusive answer on the following points:

[*] Because we are partly migrating the existing environment, we would like to start out with the free version and later (when equipment is available) make the setup high available (which includes buying the license). Is it possible to create a target, and later make the target HA keeping the data on the target (some downtime is of course expected).

[*] Hardware VSS: Starwind provides hardware VSS support, but I haven't been able to find a download for this. Is this included in the free version as well? Does the hardware VSS provider supports transportable auto-recovery snapshots? Thus, making it compatible with MS DPM and Veeam? I have seen a lot of hardware VSS provider not supporting the latter (including Microsoft's own implementation) making them useless for Hyper-V backup.

[*] Starwind Hyper-V backup seems to an interesting product. Is there any support for off-site backups? (let's say, over 100 Mbit/sec, 10-12 milliseconds latency).

Thanks,

[tux-]

Thanks Anton,

Regarding issue 3, how would you deploy the various components? I.e. the following:

(main production site)
SAN-node1 <===HA===> SAN-node2
Hyper-V nodes

(dr site)
Starwind backup server
Backup storage

In other words, how does the replication of backups work? Can't find it in the documentation.
Thanks.

[anton (staff)]

Yes, very close to what you think.

VM replication works quite differently from LUN replication. It integrates with hypervisor's CBT and moves only changed blocks to
another site "accumulating" multiple writes (so some delay or lag is present, pretty much like it happens with everybody else). Implementations
for Hyper-V and ESXi are also very different by design but idea is pretty much the same.

Thanks Anton,

Regarding issue 3, how would you deploy the various components? I.e. the following:

(main production site)
SAN-node1 <===HA===> SAN-node2
Hyper-V nodes

(dr site)
Starwind backup server
Backup storage

In other words, how does the replication of backups work? Can't find it in the documentation.
Thanks.

[tux-]

But how is that different from Hyper-V built in replication?
What I would like to do, is create periodic off-site backups with minimal I/O impact. Therefore, replication seems to be a bit to 'expensive' in terms of iops.

So is it possible to run starwind backup over a WAN link (100 mbit, 12 msec). This means, putting the backup server + backup storage offsite.
Additionally, is it possible to have two backup servers within the same license? To have backups stored on-site as well as off-site?
Or, use starwind WAN replication to store backups both onsite and offsite?

Sorry for torrent of questions, but I'm trying to figure out what would be the best option given the requirements. I'm pretty sure you will have a new customer if we can find a affordable way to store backups offsite

Yes, very close to what you think.

VM replication works quite differently from LUN replication. It integrates with hypervisor's CBT and moves only changed blocks to
another site "accumulating" multiple writes (so some delay or lag is present, pretty much like it happens with everybody else). Implementations
for Hyper-V and ESXi are also very different by design but idea is pretty much the same.

[anton (staff)]

Microsoft is here and there to sell you Windows licenses. So you cannot replicate your VM content to just some SMB / NFS file share or iSCSI volume you need licensed Windows Server 2012 box which makes everything pretty costy - very different to what we use as we don't require "other side" being licensed. Also MS has restrictions on sanboxing, you cannot start VM on another host just to verify how it was replicated as original one will fail immediately

--> EDIT

Not to leave you with an impression MS has no test failover here we are:

http://blogs.technet.com/b/virtualizati ... plica.aspx

< --- EDIT

as you'll basically initiate failover - we don't require failover for sanboxing which is very flexible and allows to test-run what you've replicated to make sure replica is fail prone. MS has minimum lag of ~5 minutes so if your RTO is less then 5 minutes you simply cannot use it - with us you can tune this setting. Also MS uses compression only even if original volume has deduplication enabled and destination also has dedupe, data would be REHYDRATED and compressed which is not very WAN friendly - we'll move deduplicated/compressed/delta utilizing slower and less reliable WAN channels.

For licensing sales will answer

But how is that different from Hyper-V built in replication?
What I would like to do, is create periodic off-site backups with minimal I/O impact. Therefore, replication seems to be a bit to 'expensive' in terms of iops.

So is it possible to run starwind backup over a WAN link (100 mbit, 12 msec). This means, putting the backup server + backup storage offsite.
Additionally, is it possible to have two backup servers within the same license? To have backups stored on-site as well as off-site?
Or, use starwind WAN replication to store backups both onsite and offsite?

Sorry for torrent of questions, but I'm trying to figure out what would be the best option given the requirements. I'm pretty sure you will have a new customer if we can find a affordable way to store backups offsite

Yes, very close to what you think.

VM replication works quite differently from LUN replication. It integrates with hypervisor's CBT and moves only changed blocks to
another site "accumulating" multiple writes (so some delay or lag is present, pretty much like it happens with everybody else). Implementations
for Hyper-V and ESXi are also very different by design but idea is pretty much the same.

[rrnworks]

Hi Anton,

Good info, but I believe Hyper-V Replica does allow you to start VM on another host to verify replica? They call it a 'test failover to a replica server" - the replication continues in the background normally.

Thanks,
Chris

Microsoft is here and there to sell you Windows licenses. So you cannot replicate your VM content to just some SMB / NFS file share or iSCSI volume you need licensed Windows Server 2012 box which makes everything pretty costy - very different to what we use as we don't require "other side" being licensed. Also MS has restrictions on sanboxing, you cannot start VM on another host just to verify how it was replicated as original one will fail immediately as you'll basically initiate failover - we don't require failover for sanboxing which is very flexible and allows to test-run what you've replicated to make sure replica is fail prone. MS has minimum lag of ~5 minutes so if your RTO is less then 5 minutes you simply cannot use it - with us you can tune this setting. Also MS uses compression only even if original volume has deduplication enabled and destination also has dedupe, data would be REHYDRATED and compressed which is not very WAN friendly - we'll move deduplicated/compressed/delta utilizing slower and less reliable WAN channels.

For licensing sales will answer

But how is that different from Hyper-V built in replication?
What I would like to do, is create periodic off-site backups with minimal I/O impact. Therefore, replication seems to be a bit to 'expensive' in terms of iops.

So is it possible to run starwind backup over a WAN link (100 mbit, 12 msec). This means, putting the backup server + backup storage offsite.
Additionally, is it possible to have two backup servers within the same license? To have backups stored on-site as well as off-site?
Or, use starwind WAN replication to store backups both onsite and offsite?

Sorry for torrent of questions, but I'm trying to figure out what would be the best option given the requirements. I'm pretty sure you will have a new customer if we can find a affordable way to store backups offsite

Yes, very close to what you think.

VM replication works quite differently from LUN replication. It integrates with hypervisor's CBT and moves only changed blocks to
another site "accumulating" multiple writes (so some delay or lag is present, pretty much like it happens with everybody else). Implementations
for Hyper-V and ESXi are also very different by design but idea is pretty much the same.

[anton (staff)]

Microsoft does not allow you to have both VMs running @ the same time.

--> EDIT

It does with a set of a limitations.

<-- EDIT

So you may test failover but it's not a true sandbox.

Hi Anton,

Good info, but I believe Hyper-V Replica does allow you to start VM on another host to verify replica? They call it a 'test failover to a replica server" - the replication continues in the background normally.

Thanks,
Chris

[rrnworks]

Hmmm...Unless the info here is no longer accurate what am I missing?
http://blogs.technet.com/b/virtualizati ... plica.aspx

Since Test Failover does NOT impact your production workload and does NOT impact your ongoing replication, it is recommended that you perform TFO regularly. There are a couple of mechanisms which help you track the frequency of this event – BPA rules and replication health.

[anton (staff)]

There's a whole bunch of a corresponding limitations starting with isolated network and requirement to run test VM on the same node if clustered.
But you're right I need to either edit my post or re-phrase it as it could leave people with impression there's no sandboxing with MS. I'll do it.

Hmmm...Unless the info here is no longer accurate what am I missing?
http://blogs.technet.com/b/virtualizati ... plica.aspx

Since Test Failover does NOT impact your production workload and does NOT impact your ongoing replication, it is recommended that you perform TFO regularly. There are a couple of mechanisms which help you track the frequency of this event – BPA rules and replication health.

[jeddyatcc]

2) There's a hardware VSS shipped with StarWind but there are issues with both DPM and VEEAM compatibility. I'll ask responsible people to report latest status here.

Is there any update regarding this? One thing that I found odd that your technical people might like to look at, is the fact that Veeam and DPM require "transportable" shadow copies. Does the hardware VSS provide them?

Definition:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library ... hadow_copy

More Info:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library ... 85%29.aspx

http://support.ca.com/cadocs/0/CA%20ARC ... reated.htm

Edit:

Also the current installer doesn't register the provider properly on Server 2012 or 2008 R2. No matter how many times I run it, it doesn't show under vssadmin list writers.

[Anatoly (staff)]

I think you need to try

Code: Select all

vssadmin list providers

instead of

Code: Select all

vssadmin list writers